Sweden's tobacco harm reduction success story has failed to win over Europe's politicians and regulators, with a new nicotine pouch tax rumoured to be in the works. Will the real-world impact of nicotine pouches in reducing smoking rates convince law makers to change their minds? Joining us today is Stefan Mathisson, editor-in-chief of Vejpkollen, who will walk us through the rapid rise of nicotine pouches, and the backlash brewing, in Europe.
Transcription:
00:04 - 01:16
[Joanna Junak]
Hello and welcome! I'm Joanna Junak and this is GFN News on GFN.tv. In Europe, nicotine pouches are gaining popularity, but their presence is becoming controversial. At the European Union level, there are no unified regulations regarding these products. So, some countries have decided to regulate their use or ban them as they see fit. Why have nicotine pouches become the focus of bans and regulations? Stefan Mathisson, a journalist, editor-in-chief of VapeCollen and a proponent of tobacco harm reduction in Sweden is joining us today to shed more light on the issue. Hello Stefan. Before we start discussing the regulations around nicotine pouches, can you tell us what nicotine pouches are and how they are used?
01:19 - 03:46
[Stefan Mathisson]
Nicotine pouches is obviously a nicotine product invented in Sweden about 15 years ago. And it was originally invented as a smoking cessation product inspired by Swedish snus, which one of the inventors, Carl Fagerström, saw as a really good smoking cessation device or innovation, snus that is. And he wanted to move that product into the pharmaceutical line of smoking cessation products that he was using in his clinic. So he took nicotine from tobacco and put it in a pouch with some other very low risk ingredients, created a pouch and got it into the pharmacies as a smoking cessation product. The problem with that product at the time this was 2009 something like that was that the nicotine levels were solo they were equivalent to nicotine gums and stuff like that so they didn't they never really hit off as a smoking cessation products and he wasn't satisfied with that so he kind of got out of it what happened next was like five years after that e-cigarettes were regulated in the eu and got a limit on nicotine, 20 milligrams per milliliter. And in this instance, Carl Fagerström saw an opportunity to make the power to consume a product instead with higher levels of nicotine, which would be more efficient for smoking cessation. But by that time, he had given up on doing it in the pharmaceuticals, in the pharmacies. So yeah, it was launched as a consumer product. Long story short, since 2015, nicotine pouches has taken off really hard, especially in Sweden and Norway, where we already have oral nicotine use established with snus. So that's the short story of nicotine pouches. It's a pharmaceutical product that actually made it into the open market and kind of worked as a nicotine product.
03:48 - 03:54
[Joanna Junak]
So who are nicotine pouches designed for and how could they help people quit smoking?
03:55 - 09:11
[Stefan Mathisson]
Nicotine pouches, they were invented as a smoking cessation product meant to be used in a clinical environment from the start. And I mean, those first pouches were very much just that kind of product. Well, Those products didn't really do it for smokers because of the low nicotine levels. With these stronger pouches, which have an equivalent nicotine concentration like Swedish snus, which has proven to be a replacement product for cigarettes for many people, these new pouches actually work. We see this in how people use them in Sweden and Norway. and to some extent other countries, but those are the two main ones I see, where you can see that nicotine, since these pouches took off, it was like in 2019, where they really kind of took off into the market. The nicotine use in Sweden, for example, has been stable since 2019. It hasn't gone up, hasn't gone down, but smoking has gone down, especially among the younger generations, like up to 30 years old. And nicotine purchases have gone up, along with vapes. disposable, honestly, in these younger groups, which tells us something. I mean, these products are replacing cigarettes on the market and using. So they're being used as replacements. Some of these people may not have been smokers before. Maybe they just started using nicotine for other reasons, or maybe they like the flavors, whatever. But we have seen that these products are used as, in the bigger picture, a replacement. cigarettes because cigarette sales are going down and these these products are going up and nicotine use is stable so for now we have kind of statistical proof if you want that so yeah if the idea was to create a product that can help with smoking cessation why have some european countries decided to ban or restrict its use Well, I think there are, if you're going to go into more explanations of what's going on here, of course, we have the earlier ban on snooze, which I can kind of lay as a background to all of this. I mean, snooze was banned in 1990 in most EU countries except Sweden. So that's always there. But I think the key reasons... There are two main stories here. I mean, on the surface, this is all about a moral panic, basically driven by interest groups. These are the same groups that are opposing vaping products. And they're positioning themselves right now as kind of a front against tobacco companies that are trying to addict the new generations to nicotine. And as with vaping, they rely less on actual science and rather go for scare tactics that are easy to influence decision makers with. And they focus on minors using the products. They focus on unknown health risks and addiction. They're kind of the talking points. And since this is a relatively unknown product to many Europeans, of works uh bands are put in place quite easily without any debate but that's just on the surface i mean under the surface i mean nicotine pouches have proven to be very disruptive product on the on the nicotine market it kind of it challenges the cigarette sales and trades and all what that implies i mean we see countries in sweden and norway um it has taken over the market along with vapes. So lots of money is at stake here, not only for the companies who are in the cigarette trade, but also with the interest groups that gets lots of money for being opposed to this or working with these issues. There's a lot of scientists, a lot of researchers who base their research on money they get from tobacco taxes, basically, or from health groups and stuff like that. This is quite complicated on the surface. I mean, these groups are pushing for lots of things. If bans won't work, the first choice, I mean, they go for partial bans, like flavorings and stuff like that. And lastly, they go for high taxes because they want to replace this revenue they're getting from cigarette sales. It's not conspiratorial, but I think that is one of the main reasons this is a big issue in countries. Bans are the effect of that, or partial bans, or high taxes.
09:13 - 09:20
[Joanna Junak]
Are concerns about the health effects of nicotine pouches justified? Are there any studies saying the products are risk-free?
09:21 - 11:59
[Stefan Mathisson]
Well, safety, I like to turn that question around a bit. I mean, we have good evidence from Sweden, depending on who you believe, of course, but we have quite good statistical and epidemiological evidence from Sweden that oral nicotine use in the form of snus is the health risks of that use over the long term is quite small. It's not risk-free. I mean, there are some risks, especially correlating to individuals who have for example, heart problems. I mean, nicotine in high levels affects how the heart works and arteries and stiffening of arteries and stuff like that. So if you have a heart condition and use nicotine or do anything else that kind of affects your heart rate, you might have worse a stroke could be worse. It could worsen the effects of the stroke, especially if you've already had a stroke and stuff like that. You can see risk, but they are very individual and it's not really on a high level, but still risks. We have quite proof of the health risks, really, right now. Nicotine patches is a pharmaceutical product. It has gone through quite a lot of research to be approved as that. So that's one. But of course, I like to focus on what are the new risks of nicotine purchase. Those are not with the nicotine itself. It's about the product itself, as with vapes. If you look at the ingredients, for example, I mean, With any chemical ingredients, you can have allergic reactions to something in the pouch. Right now, there's a study in Sweden that just started. It's going to be going on for five years, where they have noticed that some patients that the dentist saw in their clinics have some inflammations in their gums, probably due to use of nicotine pouches. I mean, that's important. This is a five-year study that's going on in the news media. It sounded like it was already done, but it's not. It's like 40 people are going to be examined because they have a problem with their gums, and they're going to see what causes this. I mean, it's important to know the ingredients of the pouches because some of these ingredients might cause allergic reactions, and some people may be
11:59 - 12:21
[Joanna Junak]
we need some product standards that actually make these products as safe as they can be looking at what you said can we assume that the lack of clear and accurate information is making it harder to make the right decisions about these products yeah well yeah i mean
12:22 - 14:45
[Stefan Mathisson]
It's hard to get information on this subject or in this topic because of how infected the debate is, just as with vaping. I mean, we've had this in the discussions of vaping for like two decades now, almost. It's always hard to know who to trust here. With vapes and e-cigarettes, we have some really rigorous studies showing that, for example, the safety compared to cigarettes. We know this today. Really, if you look at the science, if you don't look at what the interest groups are saying, but science is quite clear on e-cigarettes. I mean, they should be quite clear on nicotine powders as well. But we'll have these big scientific products that doesn't come from the industry or interest groups. We don't have that. So, of course, as a decision maker, to make an educated decision on the product is harder. But, I mean, We have lots of science on e-cigarettes. We could comply that to nicotine potions as well. But as with all things, I mean, banning products just because you don't know anything about them is kind of a bad idea anyway, because you need to regulate the product first to see what happens. So, I mean... It's hard to say where we're going to stand, but I think the difference with vapes and nicotine pouches today is that nicotine pouches is being sold by much bigger players than e-cigarettes ever was. I mean, e-cigarettes was kind of a consumer-driven, small business product, while nicotine pouches We're talking big tobacco companies here. They want to sell this product. Some of them even have the ideology of these are going to replace the cigarettes. I mean, we have those players. So I think that is going to speed up the nicotine power situation. And like in the United States, I mean, the FDA approved cigarettes. 20 different nicotine pouches with flavors as a relatively safe product. So this is going to spill over to the EU, I hope. But we never know. Some countries will never listen to that.
14:46 - 14:55
[Joanna Junak]
And what about you, Stefan? What are your thoughts on the whole issue of nicotine pouches in Europe?
14:56 - 18:41
[Stefan Mathisson]
I think it's interesting to see how similar this debate and this lawmaking conundrum going on is to what we've been having about e-cigarettes and vaping for the last two decades almost. It is exactly the same. The same interest groups are involved, the same kind of scare stories, the same kind of not relying on any science, just individual cases that's meant to scare people about nicotine pouches. So I think that's interesting because nicotine pouches, I see it from the Swedish perspective when nicotine pouches are very common, especially among kids and among children, just as vapes has become since the disposables were introduced. So it's very interesting to see what's happening, especially in the rest of Europe. I think it's important as a consumer journalist as I am to see through the scare stories and try to explain them more, what's going on. We see people in France eating nicotine pouches and going to hospitals because they can't handle it, which is a thing that doesn't happen here in Sweden. In Denmark, we have discussions about dogs dying because they scoop up nicotine pouches from the ground, which might happen. But it's strange. We don't see this in Sweden at all, even though use is very much more common. So it's interesting from a Swedish perspective, to me, to look at the European discussion and see what you can kind of get out of that and see how the media landscape handles these issues. And also from a regulatory standpoint. perspective of course how this affects it so it's interesting i so that's what i think about all this and also i mean uh these products are disruptive they are displacing both e-cigarettes and cigarettes in some cases so uh that's a consumer advocates for harm reduction this is kind of a good time there have been rumors uh for a long time now that the EU Commission is working on two things when it comes to nicotine purchase. And the one that's been the most talked about the last year or so or years has been a tax on nicotine purchase. So there is a suggestion or kind of a rumor, some documents floating around that shows that the EU Commission will suggest a tax on nicotine pouches that is very, very high. At least the Swedish standards. We have a tax here. But this new EU tax will pump it up to like €100. 20 euros per kilo, which in Sweden would mean a tax rate of 500% more than today. So there are coming things in Europe. And we talked about bans I mean, balance is one thing, taxes is another. So it'd be interesting to see this. If there is a tax implemented on nicotine pouches and vapes, for that matter, so that would mean that there is some revenue coming in. They're counting on that revenue coming in the EU, which would mean a ban would be quite Bad idea, wouldn't it? If you're going to ban products and tax them, that wouldn't make sense. So there's some interesting things happening in this field right now that's interesting to watch as a consumer.
18:43 - 19:02
[Joanna Junak]
Thank you, Stefan. That's all for today. Tune in next time here on GFN TV or on our podcast. And make sure to check out our social media pages for the latest updates on this year's Global Forum on Nicotine conference. Thanks for watching or listening. See you next time.