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Hello, Clive. Hello. It's great to see you again in Warsaw. Can you tell us what do you

think about this year's GFN conference? I'd say it's the best yet. The range of people

here, the range of discussions, the insights coming from both the panels and the presenters

and from the floor have been exceptional. I always find it moves on my knowledge and

my understanding of what we're dealing with. So yeah, great session. Very fitting for the

10th anniversary. Great tribute to the organizers, particularly Jerry and Paddy. And have you

had opportunity to be on the other sessions as well? I've been to a few other sessions.

I think they've been really interesting. I really love the one on publications. I like

the one on industry transformation. So and I think the quality of discussions very strong

and the knowledge of the people involved, both on the stage and in the audience really

make these discussions very rich indeed. This year's trapline is tobacco harm reduction

the next decade. What do you think needs to change within the next 10? Most of what needs

to change is the attitude of the tobacco control and public health community. Everything is

set now ultimately for the elimination of smoking and a huge suppression of the rates

of smoking related disease through the processes of diffusion of innovation and these new products

taking over from the old and driving out the most harmful products that we've ever seen.

The only thing that's really stopping that is anti-vaping, anti-harm reduction campaigning,

misinformation on a truly epic scale, excessive regulation that's causing perverse consequences

and essentially the people who should be charged with a public health mission are in fact holding

it back. And first and foremost, that is WHO, which is at the apex of this problem and is

actually doing more harm than good in the tobacco space now. So why is there so much

misinformation around vaping, around safety of a cigarette? I think there's a lot of misinformation

and a lot of hostility to vaping because it's a very threatening idea. If you've worked

in tobacco control, then you have a playbook that involves coercion, restrictions, punishments,

stigma, all designed to force you to quit smoking. And along comes a method which is

really about the interaction of private sector innovators and empowered consumers who can

switch to a safer product at their own initiative, at their own expense and without any involvement

from anyone in public health, essentially rendering them irrelevant and redundant. So it's a threat

to their interests, it's a threat to their way of doing things and their worldview and they are

reacting accordingly and they are trying to marginalize that strategy so that their own

preferred strategy will continue to be the dominant one. And I think that's why we're seeing

the confrontations that we see in this field. Right. Thank you so much for your comment. Thank you.