Chapters:
0:00 - Intro with Joanna Junak 0:36 - Samrat Chowdhery discusses the latest safer nicotine product ban in Taiwan 1:50 - Taiwan ban prohibits sale and possession of e-cigarettes 3:29 - Taiwan smoking rate has been on the decline 3:55 - War between the pharmaceutical and tobacco industries over control of safer nicotine products 5:51 - Ban will likely increase the size of the nicotine black market in Taiwan 8:20 - Vape ban bill likely to become law in the next few months 9:26 - Closing remarksTranscription:
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Hello and welcome. I'm Joanna Junak and this is GFN News on GFN.TV.
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Taiwan looks set to become the next country in Asia to ban nicotine vaping products.
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Lawmakers in Taiwan approved amendments to the Tobacco Hazard Prevention Act, which ban
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electronic cigarettes, regulate the use of heated tobacco products, and rise the legal
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purchase age for combustible cigarettes.
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Samrat Chowdhery, a journalist and consumer advocate from India, is joining us today.
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Hi Samrat. Why did you decide to write about Taiwan? And what has made you interested in
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this new vaping law?
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Hi Joanna. So, while I'm involved in consumer advocacy, professionally I've been a journalist
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for over two decades. So there was a bit of professional curiosity on what's happening.
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And I was also interested in what's happening in the South China Sea. You know, that's Indonesia,
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Malaysia, Philippines, Taiwan, Japan. And, you know, all of them are now formulating
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policies and it's interesting to see how and, you know, who's doing what and what may be
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in favor of consumers and what may be hurting them. And also in the Asian context, you know,
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what's happening in Taiwan also impacts what's happening in India and the region. So I was
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interested in the policy direction being taken in Taiwan, and especially that, you know,
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they have banned use of electronic cigarettes. So that's not happened anywhere in Asia before.
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I don't think any major country has taken that step. So that also was a point of curiosity.
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I wanted to know what's happening on the ground.
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When we talk about regulations, do you see India's regulations and Taiwan's regulations
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as similar?
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Yes. So in India, in 2019, vaping was banned, right? But the ban was on manufacture, sale,
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export, import, advertising, though use in possession was not banned. So Taiwan has taken
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a similar route. It is also, if you look at the bill, it heavily quotes the WHO, FCTC
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on their policy guidelines, which incidentally mentioned only that nation should prohibit
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or regulate, right? So they have taken the prohibit part of it a little more seriously,
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which is counter to what's happening in almost all parts of the world, because the nations
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that ban vaping are very few. And if you look at the WHO data, the number of countries that
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regulate or have measures, regulatory measures far outnumber the ones that are banned.
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So but the Taiwan ban is a little more draconian in the sense it also bans use and possession,
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which I don't think has happened before. And I fear that this may be picked up by some
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other nations or developing nations. What you have to keep in mind is that there is,
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you need an enforcement machinery to, you know, to monitor your citizens like that.
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So I don't see the implementability of this ban being really high. Rather than to score
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just a few governing points with either the WHO or, you know, show to the people that
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we're doing something. So the laws are similar, but the Taiwan one goes a little step ahead.
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What's the smoking rate in Taiwan? Are there a lot of people who smoke?
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Well, see, as with everywhere else, tobacco use or smoking prevalence has been declining,
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but it's still in the 20% range, around 90%. And given that the population is around 21
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million, that's about 3-4 million people who are using, who are smoking. And I believe
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a lot of them are now using heated tobacco products and e-cigarettes.
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So if we still see a smoking problem in Taiwan, why do you think the government is planning
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to ban e-cigarettes and thus reduce access to safer nicotine products?
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Well, see, from what I spoke to people over there, you know, a few opinions emerge, you
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know. So while there could be an indirect pressure from the WHO, even though Taiwan
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is not part of the WHO, but it has been trying or struggling over the last few years to become
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a part of WHO and that application keeps getting denied. So this could be one way of showing
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that, okay, you know, we are ready to play by the international regime. We are ready
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to implement. And we know in the past that the best way to make the WHO and FCTC happy
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is by banning vapes, you know, and we see that in the award being given to the Mexico
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president. And a few days later, we have that legislation. Panama, which again has banned,
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is now where the FCTC will be held. The Indian minister got an award. So, you know, that
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could have played a part, but there could be other reasons also, you know, for example,
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the tobacco industry, and this is what I heard from one of the main consumer advocates there,
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the tobacco industry and the big pharma are at war over control on nicotine. And while
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big pharma, you know, wants nicotine in their fold, which is through a medicalized route,
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the tobacco industry obviously would like to be involved in vaping products. So while
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they got their way with heated tobacco, the big pharma got their way through a ban. It
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could also be due to ignorance or lack of information among lawmakers, which I think
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is prevalent everywhere across the board, and not just a Taiwan issue, but generally
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a global issue. And I think that would have played. And then, of course, the fears of
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teen vaping, which seem inflated, but you know, the way it's presented to a lot of
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policymakers is that banning would somehow prevent that from happening.
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And how about reactions from different groups like consumers, policy experts and medical
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experts? What have they said about this proposal of banning nicotine products?
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So I spoke to a lot of people while researching for the article, and I was surprised at how
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many people didn't want to talk to me because, you know, they were they were sort of afraid
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that there will be action against them if they spoke out against government policy,
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which also gave me a sense that, you know, while Taiwan may not be that free, but that's
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not just a Taiwan issue. You know, for example, in India, a lot of people will not speak publicly,
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even though in private, they would say yes, they back harm reduction measures, but publicly
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they would not. So I, I didn't informally speak to a lot of people, but a lot of people
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I could not quote. And some people that I did quote, I had to change their names because
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they were afraid that police would land at their door. That said, the general opinion
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that I had from people was that yes, this is going to hurt the existing the current
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vapers, but also people who smoke who may want to switch in the future. So what the
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most likely outcome that I saw happening was that there will be an underground market.
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In fact, from what I heard from vendors is that they're already preparing to adjust to
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to, you know, underground lifestyle or where they would be now sort of peddling their wares
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where they could, you know, sell it to vape shops. So the consumers, of course, are really
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not happy. They think that, you know, they have been shortchanged. There are, from what
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we hear, a large population of vapers in Taiwan, there were vape shops in Taiwan, all of which
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will go underground. And, you know, and the fact that they've also banned use is criminalizing
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a lot of people just for making a safer choice. Now, from what I hear, most of them don't
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intend to go back to smoking just because the government has banned it. So the likely
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outcome is going to be that there will be a black market, there will be fewer safeguards
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for selling to minors, because now there is an industry which was regulated, or at least
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there was self regulation. And governmental regulations would have, you know, supported
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and bolstered or made those regulations stronger. But now it's all in the it's going to be in
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the black market, everyone will have access, which is, it's a problem in the making, you
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know, so I don't think the vaping industry or the vapers would suddenly disappear because
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the government has taken a dim view of the situation.
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And just one last question, Samrat, what is the legal status of the ban now?
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The phase that it is at, is that it went through three readings of the parliament. And then
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the final, so on January 12 of this year, the bill cleared the House, as in the executive.
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So now it is cleared the floor, the executive floor, legislative floor, I'm sorry. And it
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just remains that for the president to give exit to it, to give a nod to it. But since
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the president is from the same party, which proposed and got it passed, you know, it's
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almost a certainty. And also, I was speaking to advocates and people, policy people from
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Taiwan, there has never been an instance that the president has not refused to sign a bill.
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So it's only a formality. And I think in the next few months, we expect the ban to come
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into force. A month later is when it will actually come to force from the time that
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the president signs it. So it's only a matter of time. But as far as all practical purposes,
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it's a done thing.
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Thank you, Samrat. Join us on Friday to hear more about the situation in Taiwan. Brent
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will interview Danny Wong from Vape Taiwan. Thanks for watching or listening.
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See you next time.