In this episode of GFN News, we sit down with Kurt Yeo to discuss the launch of THR Global, a new platform designed to bridge the gap between personal experience and policy-grade evidence.
Kurt shares his powerful "Building Block" analogy, explaining why a "giant bag" of random testimonials often fails to move the needle. By extracting specific data points - like smoking history, failed quit attempts, and product usage - THR Global is turning individual stories into a structured, global evidence base that policy makers can no longer overlook.
Transcription:
00:00 - 00:55
[Zuzanna Kopacz]
Welcome to GFN News on GFN TV. I'm Zuzanna Kopacz. A new global platform is entering the tobacco harm reduction space. THR Global aims to strengthen consumer advocacy and give a stronger voice to organisations often left out of the conversation. Today, as a follow-up to our previous episode with Will Godfrey, we are joined by Kurt Yeo, founder of THR Global, who will share more details about the project. Hi Kurt, what led you to create THR Global and why did you feel this was the right moment to launch it?
00:57 - 03:13
[Kurt Yeo]
I think that it was built out of frustration. I've been involved in this space from an advocacy point of view since 2016. I mean, we launched Vaping Saved My Life in 2017. And the frustration comes in the fact that we do have all this information in the forms of testimonials. And we get called that it's important that these stories get shared. However, we never ever really see consumers and consumer groups actively participating where it matters most. And that even includes some of the conferences that are out there, is that they talk about us without us. And that goes back to the old harm reduction statement, is that nothing about us without us. But with regards to tobacco harm reduction, that's not very visible. And the frustration comes from not just... one thing. It's a continuous thing, and it's something that I've been witnessing all over the world, irrespective of the country, irrespective of where it's been discussed, is that consumers are almost always sidelined. In terms of timing, I think I'd like to have done this a lot sooner, but I still believe that the topic is still so polarized. On the one side, we have policymakers, scientists, lobbyists, you name it, sitting around the table discussing this particular topic. And then we have consumers that are left outside in the cold, the real people that are actually experiencing these things, that have lived experience. that are not there. And that still happens on a daily basis, irrespective of where you go around the world. So timing, I think, is always going to be the right time when these discussions are being had, irrespective of around the world. And like we've just seen with Argentina, is that there are opportunities to have these discussions and see almost a movement into, in my opinion, into the correct direction. And that's why I think the timing is good now.
03:15 - 03:26
[Zuzanna Kopacz]
You're collecting personal stories in a structured way. How does that turn individual experience into something more credible and useful in policy discussions?
03:27 - 06:25
[Kurt Yeo]
I'd like to use an analogy, if I may, as to why I believe this is a different approach and why this approach works, is that if we take, for example, everybody knows what this is. It's a building block, a kid's building block. You look at it, you understand it, you know what it does, what it means, and so forth. If we represent that as a testimonial, we then understand that that is the testimonial. What we've done in the past is we started collecting more and more testimonials. But what I saw was something very different, is that the way we present these testimonials is typically in a big giant bag. Look, we've got hundreds and hundreds of testimonials in a nice big bag. And what generates or what we typically consider as a successful testimonial is the size of the bag and the amount of pieces in the bag. But then we need to look at from the other side. What if people that are not part of that discussion on a daily basis, they don't have that frame of reference, what do they see when they get presented with this big bag of testimonials, a box of all these different stories? is that they don't really get a grasp of what we're talking about. And when we start structuring it, so what Tobacco Harm Reduction or THR Global is trying to do is extracting the details that actually people would be able to engage with. When did they start smoking? How long did they smoke for? Did they try to quit? What products did they use? And so forth. And if we start putting that in a way that people can understand, eventually what we do have is something that people would recognize the same testimonials in a structured way that people then could engage and understand okay that's what we're talking about but instead of just having its big giant bag we start collecting these testimonials we start pushing them through the same structured approach the same way it should be collected all over the world and eventually we could potentially get to something like that something massive, something that makes a lot of sense to people, something that they can engage with and understand it. And if we start collecting these pieces and these testimonials from all over the world, then we can say that this particular tobacco harm reduction product works in this way in those regions. And then we can start comparing regions and so forth. But instead of just presenting just stories, And I don't undermine the stories. I think the stories are absolutely critical. But I think what's missing is taking the very, very clear data points out of those stories and putting it in a structured way that we can engage with. And that's why I think the difference is using the same stories but extracting the very, very important details to make a better, clearer picture for people to engage with.
06:27 - 06:35
[Zuzanna Kopacz]
The voices of nicotine consumers are often sidelined in policy discussions. Why do you think that continues to happen?
06:36 - 08:07
[Kurt Yeo]
I think it's a combination of things. I think that when we talk about nicotine, it's very difficult for the average person to divorce nicotine from smoking. And part of the journey around tobacco control is to almost demonize tobacco and in extension, demonize the tobacco user. And that's why when somebody that is a nicotine user like myself approaches these things, is that we start to see them as being othered, you know, they are part of the problem. And even if they are using a safer nicotine product, they're not seen as part of the solution. The other thing is that we've built structures around trust, trusting certain groups, medical institutions, health authorities, experts and scientists, but we've never actually seen the consumers and people that use these products as part of that. That is one of the biggest problems that we are facing, is that we have put a lot of faith and trust in standard science and the science methodology and so forth. And that's a good thing. It's not a bad thing. But we've excluded people that are actually living these experiences. And I believe that is a critical component that's missing from the discussion.
08:09 - 08:15
[Zuzanna Kopacz]
And finally, for people who may feel that sharing their story won't change anything, what would you say to them?
08:17 - 10:28
[Kurt Yeo]
I get it. I really do get it. There is an apathy. There is a fatigue. You've shared your story. You don't see the needle moving in any way, shape or form. You think, well, what's the point of me submitting another testimonial? It's just not going to get lost. But I believe that if you have taken such an enormous step of changing your life and quitting you know, a very, very toxic habit to something that's safer. You've done all the hard work already. Spending five minutes to create a single testimonial like this brick, you need to understand that it's not just that brick. It's all those other bricks that put together, all those other testimonials that are put together. And what we are hoping to achieve is to then structure it in a way that makes better sense for everybody to understand. It's not just a story. It's now part of a collection of of information that will provide, in my view, a better understanding, almost like a point of evidence of what's happening to real people in the real world and how they're using these products. So my call is always going to be to the consumers, especially the consumer groups around the world. is to encourage your communities to participate in sharing their story and hopefully they think that THR Global can share their story in a way that is appropriate and a way that could help them move the needle in their regions. One of the big things that THR Global is trying to do is not only capture the testimonials of countries where it's well established, the UK, New Zealand, Sweden, any other parts of the world. But we also created a structure that parts of the world like Africa, my continent, that might not have formal structures where people can then share those stories. So my call to everybody is that, yes, we do understand. You've shared your story. It didn't move the needle. You're not being heard. Take another five minutes, share it on THR Global and be part of this growing evidence base from around the world.
10:31 - 10:48
[Zuzanna Kopacz]
Thank you, Kurt. That's all for today. Join us next time on GFN TV or tune in to our podcast. And don't forget to follow us on social media for the latest updates from this year's Global Forum on Nicotine Conference. Thanks for watching or listening. See you soon.