For 11 years Thailand has enforced a strict prohibition of vapes, with the resulting crackdown allegedly pushing vapers towards the black market. But advocates have created a strong community opposed to this ban, emphasising the right of people who smoke to quit using safer nicotine products. To examine the intricacies of Thailand's vape ban, we're joined today by Asa Saligupta, a leading Thai vaping advocate.
Transcription:
00:04 - 01:19
[Joanna Junak]
Hello and welcome. I'm Joanna Junak and this is GFN News on GFN.TV. Thailand's approach to vaping is very strict and despite discussions around harm reduction, the government maintains its position against allowing the sale or use of e-cigarettes in the country. Thai authorities justify this decision with concerns about public health and state that e-cigarettes can be a gateway for younger generation to start smoking. Asa Saligupta, Director of End Cigarette Smoke Thailand is joining us today to explain the reasons and implications of the government's position on public health in the country. Hello Asa, could you please explain the current laws on vaping in Thailand, when the ban started, why it was introduced and what the consequences are for breaking the rules?
01:20 - 07:47
[Asa Saligupta]
The ban started about 11, approximately 11 years ago. It started because of the prime minister back then at that time, he worried about, he went around and it was, Chi Cha was, quite spreading, quite famous and quite popular among tourists. But he was worried about the youth and the children, you know, because chicha has got flavors and whatnot. So he said he asked the cabinet to look into chicha. But the health department and the people in control said like, well, let's include tobacco harm reduction that include electronic chicha and electronic cigarette. in the world as well while using scientific facts on Chicha alone. So Chicha is combustible plus flavors. So of course, it was deemed more dangerous and more addictive than regular combustible cigarettes. So hence the ban on electronic cigarettes. And on the fine or what happened to those who breaks the laws, there were fees and who actually broke the law, actually who breaks the law was fees and imprisonment. But we have to go back and look at what the laws said. The law said, the first law that came out said that You cannot import. That's it. So no, no, you cannot. You cannot import electronic cigarette, plastic child, electronic cigar. So vaping was banned. importation of web devices and everything was banned because like there's no tax. So you cannot, it was like tax avoidant. And then the Department of Consumer Protection came out, say like you cannot distribute. So those are the two laws that exist up until today, had not been updated or anything yet. So it is illegal to import and also illegal to distribute. And that was it. But the problem that occurred was there are some, let me say it, bad, quote unquote, bad officials. They're trying to see the loopholes of the laws. And they will say like, OK, if you possess illegal items, which actually, vaping devices actually are not in a word, are not illegal items. It's illegal to import and, like I said, illegal to distribute, but it's not an illegal product per se. So you can possess it and you can also use it. It's not illegal to possess and to use it. But, of course, there are loopholes and so the underground... market had grown much since and of course along comes bribery and whatnot so you know pretty much that's that should answer your question you mentioned the black market so what does it look like Actually, it was in the void more than 11 years ago, before they announced the ban. After that, you know, people who quit smoking because they use vape instead, you need to find something else. You know, so we start searching around and there are people still bringing in those those same old distributors. you know, the sellers and, you know, the market was still there. We used to be able to go to a department store to get vape items. And then, you know, those department stores were gone. You know, the shops in the department stores were gone. So we have to look around, we search around, we have to Google it and whatnot. But it was still there. It was easy. There are very large communities Lots of large communities here. You can go to Facebook, Instagram. And here, one of the application that was really famous is called Lion. And they are a lion group. One of the biggest Facebook group. It was closed, unfortunately. There were about 500,000 members belong to that group of vapers. And then, you know, like, and it's called Thai Vape Market, but of course it goes against community rule of Facebook. So it had to be shut down because you can go, you can find anything there. And of course, you know, you can go to flea market on, and you know, if you know where, and of course, you know, vapers, we know where to go. So we can still find, but after this new government, the new crackdown, After we went through, like I should mention, I was part of the committee to amend the laws on electronic cigarettes. And we probably have some good news soon. But it was a storm before the calm. So there was a big crackdown. So right now, It's more difficult to find wave items or THR in general. So it's more difficult. It doesn't mean that it's impossible. And the price has gone up. Of course, the underground, the black market took this opportunity to raise the price because since you can't find it, it's a loss of supply and demand.
07:48 - 07:52
[Joanna Junak]
And what is the general public's reaction to vaping in Thailand?
07:54 - 09:44
[Asa Saligupta]
In general, it's really, you know, like people are split. It's either pro or against, you know, either you're for it. But mostly from what I've seen and what I've heard, you know, we started we have our own small organizations, we have our own communities. And then we started spreading words around saying like, Hey, listen, you know, I'm not saying that vaping is 100% safe, but it is definitely safer. Definitely safer. And the main reason is, is that it's not combustible. There's no combustion. And so since if uh smoking is allowed why not let us choose and then you can come out with your you know whatever rule laws regulations kind of saying like hey you cannot web in public places just like smoking you know uh you cannot the the minimum age of smokers and vapors do it the do do it the same way you cannot sell to miners you know and and all these rule of regulations plus you can control the quality of web items especially the liquids and everything that comes out and most people most people kind of agree and now we are quite happy to see that there are a lot of people whom you know like they are not You know, pro or against vaping, but still they come out and defend, like say, Hey, you know, like just it's their life, just let them choose. So it's, it's, it's getting much better traction and, and a point of view from the public.
09:46 - 09:58
[Joanna Junak]
So, to give people a better understanding of the health benefits of using safer alternatives to quit smoking, have any studies been conducted on their impact in the country?
09:59 - 12:09
[Asa Saligupta]
Uh, you, you cannot really, because like once, you know, there are, there are scientists and professors trying to do studies on vaping, but of course, you know, there are a big, big, big, uh, lobbyists, lobbyists, you know, big, big people. I don't want to use the word mafia, but you know, there, there are people who's, backing all the prohibition of vaping. And they say like, hey, listen, you know, you cannot do any scientific study because it's illegal. So you cannot do it. But they can. So the scientific and quote unquote really scientific studies that came from them came from you know UCSF and and and and you know other universities that are anti-THR and they use like, you know, their connections and doing the same kind of things, you know, like nicotine in, you know, you drop nicotine in rats and rats die, you know, like, you know, all of us kind of familiar with that. And we ask like, so what kind of strength, you know, because if you use pure nicotine, I mean, not even rats, elephants. So it really doesn't make sense. So for those who try to do scientific research, they will be blocked and banned. And some of them, I know some personal friends of mine who was a PhD, a doctor. He tried to do some research. research on vaping and he got called personally. They said like, that will be the end of your career if you keep on doing this. So he had to stop.
12:10 - 12:16
[Joanna Junak]
Asa, in this case, I have to ask, how developed is tobacco harm reduction in the country?
12:18 - 14:10
[Asa Saligupta]
Oh, tobacco, when you want to use the word tobacco harm reduction, it's still the same old saying, it's quit or die. It's the tobacco control people, the Thailand tobacco control. are in total control and of course they have like uh right now they have there's also another friend of mine who's used to be a house representative and uh right now he's digging in like you know the quit quit smoking call, you know, you can dial a number, a certain number, and it spend like millions, millions of dollars budget for just like I don't know, a few hundred calls or even not even a hundred calls. And so it's a waste of budget. But these are people who are doing THR and they're not looking at real fact and evidence. It just have to be their way or no way. And of course, you know, they always present with the presentation of a new way. of doing a pharmaceutical way. You know, they would go to the parliament and showing the new new medicine that hadn't even come out yet. And I'm going like, You know, we were going like, if it hadn't come out, how, how, how do you, how did you have it? How is it in your pocket? I said, oh, this is the new product. I said like, so how could you have it? You know, so this is kind of the things that kind of like race question, but that question is kind of like going nowhere.
14:12 - 14:19
[Joanna Junak]
So how does your organization work to provide a better understanding of safer alternatives to smoking?
14:20 - 18:03
[Asa Saligupta]
Well, personally, I would usually, personally and usually, I would have my, we would pass around. We have our own Facebook group, which we have. Fortunately, we have over 100,000 members or followers. I also have my own personal YouTube channel that I, We would do a live show on Saturday evening, Thailand time. And so we would spread around because like that, there would be a lot, like I mentioned before, there will be a lot of people got arrested and they will come and ask like, what is illegal? What is not illegal? What is good? What is bad? What should we do? What should... You know, what should what should be done? And and especially, you know, like, you know, if we have communities, we can spread around like how to correctly use the web items. I mean, we're not talking about disposable this easy, but, you know, like some of the old fashioned, you know, how to do the coil, how to raise temperature correctly. what kind of temperature, wattage, and everything else. So we kind of like come in and exchange our knowledge. And between that, I spread the word around and say like, OK, here's the laws. So don't be a victim of corrupted officials. All right, you have to know the laws, no matter what, and not in THR, not in cigarette, not in vaping, but in everything else, you know, in driving, in everything. So if you know the laws, you won't be victims. So we kind of like, we have exchange, and then I have a few friends who come in and join me. And sometimes we have senators and House representatives come in and join us and talk. explain how the laws are going and right now after this uh We already have concluded our committees. The session had been concluded, and there are three options that we handed in to the government. The cabinet, everything is done. So the three options, definitely we have to amend the laws. The first option was to be stricter, which out of 35 members, of the committees, there are like seven votes. The second option was just to lift the ban on heat, not burn. And there was about five vote and about 22, I think 22 other members going for totally lift the ban with laws and regulations covering all important areas, especially, you know, to deter youth and nicotine naive person. So of course, you know, we don't want people to get become addictive to anything, not even just for youth, but for even for adults. So, you know, those are to be seen, but it had already been into the government and there are steps, you know, they have to do the budgets and everything else, but hopefully things will come out in our favor finally after over a decade.
18:05 - 18:17
[Joanna Junak]
Okay, so my last question, Asa. Why is Thailand so strict about vaping when some other countries promote it as a safer option for people to quit smoking?
18:18 - 19:52
[Asa Saligupta]
Prices, maybe. One of the main... What's the word? The main... One of the main person behind it, he had been working anti-tobacco for, I think he just celebrated 40 years. So he just keep on going and going and going and he's looking at vaping even, you know, I don't think he understand he's quite aged. And I don't think in the end he understand what THR means. And it's also our fault, you know, using the word electronic cigarette. So once it comes into market about 20 years ago, right? And over 20 years ago, he probably looked at it and say like, ah, another form of cigarette. Must be under big tobacco. Let's do something against it. So I think that that's what started, you know, like how serious it is. And many people don't even know this, but the hub of Article 5.3 of FCTC COP is right here in Bangkok, in Thailand. So it's quite important.
19:54 - 20:13
[Joanna Junak]
Thank you, Asa. That's all for today. Tune in next time here on GFN TV or on our podcast. And make sure to check out our social media pages for the latest updates on this year's Global Forum on Nicotine conference. Thanks for watching or listening. See you next time.