Could Chile's new progressive approach to safer products win over Argentina? Despite its prohibitionist stance over the past decade, Argentinian advocates are hopeful that there is room for change. To explore the divergent policies of these South American neighbours is Federico Fernández, CEO of We Are Innovation.
Transcription:
00:04
JOANNA JUNAK: Hello and welcome! I'm Joanna Junak and this is GFN News on GFN.TV. Chile has finally adopted a new law regulating electronic and non-nicotine delivery systems. Meanwhile, its neighbour Argentina still enforces prohibitionist vaping policies. Seeing Chile's success, Argentina now faces a choice. continue its vaping ban or adopt innovative alternatives to smoking. Joining us today to shed light on Argentina's situation is Federico Fernandez, CEO of We Are Innovation. Hello Federico! What are the key differences between Chile's approach to vaping regulations and Argentina's prohibitionist stance?
01:14
FEDERICO FERNANDEZ: Yes, Joanna, as your question said, Chile has smart regulation now and Argentina has a prohibition, so there's a huge difference even though it's worlds apart, even though the countries are so close and share a very long frontier between the two of them. The differences are quite big. Just to make a little bit of history, Joana, Chile had a very interesting scenario until a month ago, because Chile had a very particular regulatory framework, an innovation, if you will, which is that vaping liquids were allowed to be sold on pharmacies, but no pharmacy ever got a license to do that. So, you know, it was a de facto prohibition. Argentina has a different situation. In 2001, the ANMAT, which is like the FDA of the country, banned vaping. And since then, it has been made, it has been prohibited. Unfortunately, in 2016, this prohibition was ratified. So it's been a completely different, you know, scenario between, I mean, now it's a completely different scenario between the two countries. What Chile has done is quite interesting because it has now a a smart regulation that provides adequate limits for nicotine, proper labeling and of course protects the underage population. So it's a major victory what happened in Chile and perhaps Chile has the best vaping regulation in the world. This is something to be discussed, but it's something we should keep an eye on.
03:08
JOANNA JUNAK: Scientific evidence shows that vaping is 95% safer than smoking. And some countries are already adopting this knowledge in the regulations. So why does Argentina still continue to ban vaping despite this evidence?
03:27
FEDERICO FERNANDEZ: Well, that's a million dollar question. I think there are several misunderstandings that you could go back to the banning in 2011. The ban happened because some probably bad actors were trying to bring huge containers from China with vaping products. And they were saying that this was not a pharmaceutical product. It was like a food product or something like that. And then the UNMAT intervened and said, OK, let's ban it, and let's see what happens. And then inertia. you know, started acting and things didn't change for a long time. There's a lot of misinformation, as you know, Joanna. There's a mythology that basically has stayed, you know, has created this image that vaping is as harmful or even more harmful than smoking. And this is repeated by even scientific organizations, which is quite sad. So this has created a lot of fear. On the other hand, we are hopeful that the current government, the current administration will review the prohibitionist stance that Argentina has had towards vaping, also towards heated tobacco, and things hopefully will change for the better.
05:09
JOANNA JUNAK: You mentioned misinformation as a main reason for this decision, but snows and nicotine pouches are allowed in the country. Does it mean the information around them is clear and accurate?
05:27
FEDERICO FERNANDEZ: This is a very interesting question that you asked me and probably I'll try to give you the best answer that I can give you, but probably I don't have all the information. You know, something, as you know, Joanna, at We Are Innovation, we've been working for quite some time in an index that measures how different countries around the globe treat innovative nicotine products. That index can be found, by the way, at antismoking.global. And one of the lessons that you quickly learn by taking a look at the research that we've done is that In most countries, of course there are exceptions, but in most countries, regulation or rules around innovative nicotine products tend to be very precarious, tend to be not guided by rationality, by a principle of openness towards innovation, but it's more like a jungle-like scenario. And I think in the case of Argentina, going to snus and nicotine pouches, if you take a closer look, what you see is that none of those products have a framework specific for them. I think they are basically under the radar. Snus is virtually impossible to be purchased in Argentina. Pouches are a very small part of the market and they are still highly restricted. Every time the authorities have had, the health authorities in particular, have had the opportunity to speak about them, they have been very negative towards them. So I think they are just, you know, it's a very small product, so to speak, and it's just under the radar. But this is not part of a coherent, let's say, approach towards alternative nicotine products.
07:36
JOANNA JUNAK: So looking at regulations in other countries, what nicotine policy models could Argentina adopt and what advantages or disadvantages might they have?
07:49
FEDERICO FERNANDEZ: Well, I mean, the main disadvantage that Argentina has is that it has prohibition, which is definitely I mean, prohibition is, let's say, anti-scientific, is anti-innovation, is anti-smoking people because you're depriving them from alternatives that will allow them to consume nicotine without all the problems that combustion entails. So that is the biggest disadvantage is where Argentina is right now. Models, for sure, I mean, what Chile has achieved is a major victory. I think we really need to celebrate and congratulate what, you know, activists there and other stakeholders, but for sure, Asovaip Chile, Ignacio Leyva have been doing, have been working for so many years because, you know, And overnight success usually has been built since 10 years or more before. And this is what we are seeing in Chile. Now we are all happy and celebrating. And it seems that this happened from Friday to Monday. And it's not the case at all. Chile has been working more than a decade to achieve this. Another great example, and Argentina could learn a lot from this country, is Sweden. Of course, what we would like to see in a nutshell is what we like to call the three A's for innovative nicotine products, which is we want to see these products to be accessible. That means that These products can be purchased. These products are not hidden. These products are not treated as if they were a pornographic magazine, if you allow me the metaphor. These products are available, of course, for adults, not for underage. But these products can be purchased both through different sales channels, online and physical. These products are acceptable. What does it mean that these products come in different flavors and in different nicotine levels? So the person that we have in mind is a current smoker. So they can find alternatives that are attractive to them, and they can replace cigarettes with safer alternatives. And of course, these products should be affordable. This means that usually with taxation, governments can do a lot. These products should not be taxed as combustible cigarettes. These products should be different taxations, and these products would be, let's say, economically more competitive than cigarettes.
10:27
JOANNA JUNAK: Based on what you said, why do policymakers in Argentina still focus on restrictions rather than opening up to harm reduction strategies?
10:38
FEDERICO FERNANDEZ: Johanna, that's a very good question. I would say in Argentina, what we have, you know, policymakers themselves have done very little regarding innovative nicotine products. You know, as we were talking earlier and Matt, you know, let's say, an unelected body was the one that banned vaping more than 10 years ago. Heated tobacco was banned by the health minister. This was not part of the conversation. This was done a few years ago. literally weeks before the administration finished and was replaced by a new government. So again, what we have seen regarding prohibitions and bans in Argentina is more related to faceless bureaucracies and very unilateral actions than actual policymaker. I think in Argentina we really need that policymakers, members of parliament, senators start actually doing some policy, have some open discussions and not let faceless bureaucracies and inertia to win the day.
12:08
JOANNA JUNAK: And now that Chile has introduced new regulations, what do consumer activists in Argentina think?
12:16
FEDERICO FERNANDEZ: Well, you know, I cannot speak to them. I'm sure they're very happy. I know, let's say, that there are many, let's say, activist organizations in Argentina, in the rest of the region, that are looking at these developments with a lot of hope, because really the example of Chile is very positive for the region. I think it's very positive for the world. I think Chile gives us a huge opportunity to start a ripple effect across the region. Argentina should be, and hopefully will be, let's say, the second example to join Chile in creating and establishing a smart regulation, ideally for all alternative nicotine products. But let's see what we can do. And we would do a huge mistake if we underestimate what has happened in Chile. Chile is a country that is, let's say, in South America and Latin America. Most of the countries there are bad examples regarding regulation of innovative nicotine products. And Chile is really setting a positive example for the region, of course, and I'm very, I come from Argentina, so I'm very interested in that, but also for the rest of the world. As I said, Johanna, at the beginning, I don't know we should, I mean, we've been doing a lot of work regarding different regulatory frameworks for alternative nicotine products. And I think we could have a very serious conversation on whether the smart regulatory framework that Chile has established for vaping is the best of the world. And that, again, that comes from Latin America, that comes from South America. So we should keep an eye on the developments there and we should really try to learn from the Chilean experience.
14:22
JOANNA JUNAK: And what about you? What do you think about it? Do you and your organization have any expectations?
14:30
FEDERICO FERNANDEZ: Yes, well, a lot. We are extremely, really, as you can imagine, we are extremely happy about this. At the beginning of April, we will be hosting a webinar that will feature the Chilean experience, but hopefully this is going to be one of many things that we will be doing. I wrote for our website, We Are Innovation, about what Argentina could learn about Chile. I invite everybody to go take a look at weareinnovation.global. And definitely we think that we have, you know, sometimes it's easy to become pessimistic, but I think that there are a lot of reasons to be extremely optimistic for the future of innovative nicotine products helping us defeating smoking. And we see more and more very positive examples. Of course, Sweden, which has virtually became smoke-free, the developments in the US, the developments in New Zealand, the developments in Japan, the developments in Switzerland, in the Czech Republic, in Greece. What we see more and more is that countries that embrace innovation in nicotine, lower smoking rates, and give more alternatives to smokers to quit. And what we see by the same token, let's say on the other hand, what we see is that countries that are reactionary towards alternative nicotine products that ban them or treat them in a wrong way, get stagnant regarding smoking rates. And they seem that to hit a limit because coercion can take you to a certain point. So there are a lot of reasons to be optimistic that if we do our work, letting people know about these good examples. The fight against smoking will be won thanks to innovation, as we have solved many other problems thanks to innovation. So I'm extremely positive and optimistic.
16:50
JOANNA JUNAK: Thank you, Federico. That's all for today. Tune in next time here on GFN TV or on our podcast. And make sure to check out our social media pages for the latest updates on this year's Global Forum on Nicotine conference. Thanks for watching or listening. See you next time.