In this episode of GFN Voices we're joined by Dorrie Heemskerk to bring you some expert insight into efforts to counter misinformation in public policy.
Transcription:
00:09 - 00:23
[Joanna Junak]
Dorrie, you focus on legislation and public communication around safer nicotine products. So can you tell me what's the biggest challenge in changing public opinion about harm reduction in the Netherlands?
00:23 - 01:55
[Dorrie Heemskerk]
Okay, well that's a very very difficult and also important question of course. In the Netherlands the public opinion is 80% approximately of smokers think that for instance vapes are more harmful than cigarettes so fighting that public opinion or trying to change it is very difficult so there's a lot of misconception and which is also introduced or sustained by government institutions by saying we think that e-cigarettes are more harmful than ever thought and trying to twist statistics information so that makes it very difficult so there's no silver bullet or there's no way that we can change the public perception or opinion because as a trade association we are like tight limited to what we can say so unfortunately i cannot say okay we we should do this or should do that what we did do is try to find consumers and try to help them also or at least try in ways that they were able to voice their their concerns And so that's what we do.
01:56 - 02:00
[Joanna Junak]
What are the main difficulties in regulating e-cigarettes in the country?
02:03 - 03:47
[Dorrie Heemskerk]
They used to be regulated, in fact, but now we have so many regulations which turned out into bans so we are over regulated and what happened to consumers of course they are no longer able to find legal regulated products in the Netherlands especially when we talk about e-cigarettes what happened in the Netherlands is that we have a flavor ban a white list of 16 ingredients that you can only make a tobacco flavor with, well, partly tobacco flavor so what happened is that consumers do not want to use that product so they go outside they go to other countries we are a very small country so they go to Germany or they go to Belgium there are bus loads going every week and they buy their products there so what happened is there's this vicious cycle Of course, we have seen experimentation of e-cigarettes in the Netherlands by young people that turned into legal action or restrictions, of course, of the legal product. But children and young people turned into, they bought their products in the black market. So the problem didn't get solved. So what happened is more restrictions to legal products. And now adult smokers who would benefit to transition to a lesser harmful product, they are not able to do that in the Netherlands.
03:47 - 03:51
[Joanna Junak]
What's happening with black market of vaping in the Netherlands?
03:51 - 04:57
[Dorrie Heemskerk]
Yeah, it's huge. So our trade association, like the sales, the volume, has dropped by 80%. But consumers didn't. quit so what happened is that smart people who are thinking okay I can better use a regulated product they go abroad but the rest just buys it from the black market which is readily available and it's really super easy for uh young people to buy their products from social media snapchat tick tock whatever and that's what what they do but these products are like the huge like 20 000 puffs products and they buy that and they use that with way more nicotine than allowed and way more volume than allowed So the government has created a situation that they can't contain and they cannot protect children. So that's what happened.
04:57 - 05:12
[Joanna Junak]
This year's Trapline is challenging perceptions, effective communications for tobacco harm reduction. So what are the biggest barriers for communicating about THR in the Netherlands?
05:12 - 06:58
[Dorrie Heemskerk]
So, well, if authorities in the Netherlands add to the misconception and say, okay, vaping is not less harmful than smoking, people just don't know what to believe. If they try to find information, if they would really be curious, they don't read scientific news. So what they do is they read just... everything they can find through Google or whatever and they get very negative news about e-cigarettes. So you have these two opposites like the harm reduction promoters and the tobacco control people that say no you shouldn't change the one addiction to the other and they all have their own ingrained beliefs so it's very difficult to try to get through that so to break that that these opposites but ultimately we want the same we want just people to help to quit smoking and become more healthier. So the idea would be to try to bring more of a nuance into the... and start a dialogue without telling, okay, you should think this or you should think that. So trying to bridge the differences. But that's the challenge and we will try. and use the consumer's voice. I guess that's also something that, because they can share their own stories and their own experience.
06:58 - 07:03
[Joanna Junak]
So why is education so important in THR? Yes, it is, it is.
07:04 - 08:12
[Dorrie Heemskerk]
But if you are like opposite, the thing that happens is like confirmation bias. So you find only or you listen only to the information that is helping you to think what you're already thinking. So education is important, but the question is how can you bring that education across. So when I look at science, it's very difficult to understand what they exactly mean. So it would be helpful, and I think they have started doing that more and more, that scientists also are able to make their information really super simple. So lay people that are not scientists and aren't used to reading science, they understand what it means in day-to-day living. And there is just, we should be trying to get that across and heard by the people that need that the most, I guess.
08:12 - 08:16
[Joanna Junak]
thank you so much though okay it was a pleasure thank you