Maria Papaioannoy-Duic, founder and spokesperson of Rights for Vapers, speaks with Joanna Junak about the challenges Canadian vapers face in being heard in public health debates. Maria shares how her organization has worked tirelessly to educate consumers on safer nicotine alternatives, fight misinformation, and give a voice to those seeking harm reduction over prohibition.
Transcription:
00:10 - 00:28
[Joanna Junak]
Maria, you are the founder and spokesperson of Rights for Vapers, one of Canada's biggest advocacy groups for safer nicotine products. So, can you tell me how consumer voices are currently perceived in public debates about tobacco harm reduction?
00:28 - 02:47
[Maria Papaioannoy-Duic]
Hi, thank you so much for having me. I think it's funny because we're not allowed to participate in public debates. We're not included in them. However, we make the space. Right now, we have spent a lot of time. I've personally spent a lot of time during COVID. the beginning and especially during COVID, to be able to educate Canadian consumers who choose to be educated on safer nicotine products. It's been a long, long road, but one that has been so amazing because we have consumers who have had the opportunity to speak with government, to be part of the process. There's a group called Vapers for a Smoke-Free Canada. who have a beautiful relationship with Health Canada. None with us, we don't, you know, we're not here to fund anything or anything like that, but they're educated on the process. And I really think the big thing that we've done is through education, people feel empowered. And when you're empowered, you can engage with anyone on this topic and they have that confidence. We do what we can to have this topic heard. I think our biggest, so far in 2025, during the last election, we noticed that the Conservative government put out an ad saying, vote for us, we're going to bring nicotine pouches back, which is huge because our previous Liberal government, the Minister of Health, went to very far extremes to try and ban. nicotine pouches in the country to the extreme of he gave himself and the role the power to remove any drug from market, which is very dangerous. So that's how much they do not like tobacco. And this is how much they don't care about Canadians. They're willing to do anything to, you know, give it to the tobacco companies. And sadly, we as consumers and people who use nicotine and craving safer nicotine products are stuck breaking laws, going to the black market. So we're looking at 2025 to make huge changes to really get the conversation from here to here and bringing everyone, including the NGOs that don't like us, into it.
02:48 - 02:56
[Joanna Junak]
Why is there so much misinformation about vaping and tobacco harm reduction in Canada?
02:56 - 05:58
[Maria Papaioannoy-Duic]
I think the reason why we have so much misinformation about vaping and tobacco harm reduction in Canada is the voice that is being heard and amplified through media and through politicians tends to be the NGOs. Sadly, our NGOs are very, very stuck in their ways. And I'm not here to insult someone because of their views and like kudos. However, when you create a view and then you block out opposition and you don't allow your view to be challenged openly, what happens is you stay in this cycle of what I know is what I'm comfortable with. That's where our misconceptions happen. It's also illegal to talk positively about vaping if you own a vape shop. So there, you can go to prison for 18 months if the sale of a vaping product happens because you shared a relative risk. So if you tell someone that... You know, buy this vaping product because it's 95 percent safer than smoking, but don't print out the entire study. You can go to jail for that. Not that anyone's going to jail. Let's be honest. We have incredible regulations. No one's enforcing them. I think their goal, their goal. It's scary when you see tobacco control, the NGOs. I'm like starting to call them like trouble or the classic five or the triad of trouble. Really use countries that have very anti-vaping regulations and tend to have very bad regulations. humanitarian records as examples of what we should follow using Australia saying they have the best vaping policies in the world where we see what's happening and they have the strongest black market. They're very flippant, but they have And I need to give them respect for this. They have history. They have they're in the trenches. If it wasn't for them, we'd be still smoking on planes. If it wasn't for them, we wouldn't know as much of the science that we do. But also, if it wasn't for them, we would have less people who smoke. Like right now, people believe in Canada that vaping is more harmful than smoking. And they're not allowing that. And we're looking at a population level of over 82%. And because of them, they are now causing harm and sometimes when you're doing good there comes to that point where you can only do so much good then it starts to be harmful. That's where they're at and I can only imagine They've done their job and instead of pivoting, it must be very hard for them. So in a way, I feel sorry for them, if that makes any sense. I want to empathize with people because everybody is important and the work that they've done, I don't want to take away from it, but they have to realize now they're being harmful instead of harmless.
05:58 - 06:04
[Joanna Junak]
People in Canada understand that vaping is less harmful than smoking.
06:04 - 09:27
[Maria Papaioannoy-Duic]
No. According to the 2022 study, 82% of Canada either doesn't know, Canadians either doesn't know or think it is more harmful than smoking. But what's even more disturbing is 92% of Canadians who smoke believe that vaping is more harmful than smoking or know nothing about it. Why is education so important in tobacco harm reduction? Education is so important because we actually have none of it. So, I mean, when you have none, you have to say it is very important. And imagine if we're looking at any other form of things, bicycle helmet laws, seatbelt laws. Safe socks, safe needle, naloxone, all those are through educational campaigns. But we're so afraid that a kid might pick up a vape. We're so afraid to say that vaping is safer than smoking. On the Health Canada website, it recommends if you smoke vape. Health Canada says it, but again, they spent millions of dollars telling us how vaping is bad while at the same time leaving three or four sentences on their website. So I really implore Health Canada to step up. I mean, my national health agency to step up. Instead, what we're seeing is in Canada, our biggest chief medical officers stepping up to say, let's get rid of flavors. when we know the science does not support that, when we know, in Canada specifically, that the reason that kids vape are not flavors, the main reason that kids vape are... mental health, depression, anxiety. So how are we treating the cause with something that is not the cause? So again, and also you're not fixing the black market just because we're gonna throw more regulations. And we've seen what happened in the province of Quebec. They have a complete flavor ban, yet there is flavors available on every street corner. And instead of the tobacco control people that have said and this is where you know that they're so they're doing the harm is that they fought for these regulations. And now that they're seeing the consequences, they're saying it's not our fault. Hands away. But that's not right. You can't tell someone what to do and then say, it's not my fault. Also, the government says, let's just listen to one woman. And I'm not saying the government should listen to this woman either. I'm saying, let's follow the science. Let's do it. And that's why, I don't know if I have time to say this, but I'm going to because I'm pumping it up. That's why in November of this year, I have booked the hotel. We are doing the Safer Nicotine Conference for Canadians. Okay. And at the end of that, on day two, we are going to build a piece of legislation that will create the Safer Nicotine Act, which would bring all nicotine products, excluding tobacco, so pouches, gums, pouches, gums, pouches, gums, patches, and vaping products all under a single act, make them a consumer product, and allow them to be called cessation. It's a big ask. It's never been done anywhere in this world. But you know what? What's the worst that can happen? They say no, but at least we tried. Thank you, Maya. We will keep an eye on this situation. Please do. Keep me accountable. Thank you.
09:27 - 09:29
[Joanna Junak]
Thank you so much. Thank you.